Growing up, there were times my parents and I didn’t get along. I’m sure you can relate. In fact, for a large portion of my adolescence, I was pretty convinced that my parents were idiots. I certainly didn’t respect them very much, and at times I thought I didn’t need them. Later in life, I have now come to appreciate and cherish them both, and I recognize their significant contribution to my life. They have shaped and molded me into the man that I am today, even when I resented and even failed to recognize it.

Despite my feelings and lack of recognition towards them, they have always been my parents since birth. They never ceased to be my parents. Our relationship with our heavenly Father is very similar in this regard. In our spiritual (re)birth we become His children, and He becomes our Father. I failed to acknowledge Him as such throughout much of my life, and I certainly didn’t (and often don’t) appreciate Him enough. But all the while, He was still my Father.

The other day someone mentioned to me that she had a hard time believing that human choice and sincerity plays no role in our salvation. She said that despite being baptized at a young age and being raised in the church, she didn’t feel that she was saved until she began taking her faith seriously as a young adult. Today I was thinking about the analogy above, and how God has been my heavenly Father even when I failed to recognize Him as such. I think we run into trouble when we make our sincerity or choice a part of salvation. God saves us, we respond to that, but only after He has saved us.

“To all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.” -John 1:12-13 (NIV)

What role did I play in being born into this world? None. But now that I am born, I have the choice of how I will live. Our spiritual rebirth is no different. I played no role in being “born again” (justification), but now I must choose to cooperate with the Holy Spirit in order to become more like Jesus each day (sanctification). We run into trouble when we use our feelings as a gauge of our salvation. They can be an indication of reality, but they also can mislead us. As children of God, we will continually grow in grace and in appreciation of what God has done for us in and through Jesus Christ. We will continue to understand more and more of the depth of His love and compassion for us. But as we grow in knowledge and grace, we don’t become “more saved” than when we were first baptized into His death and raised to life through faith with Him (Romans 6:4). We are saved by one thing: Jesus Christ took our place on the cross and died for our sins.

My dad has been my dad since I was born. And my heavenly Dad has been my Dad since I was reborn. The same is true for you.

Last night I received a comment from Ty on a past post dealing with salvation. His comment read:

I personally believe what you saying makes sense theologically, and the Reformed position makes sense to me, however what I do not understand, is how someone can hold the Lutheran position while still holding to infant baptism? You said “by the Word of God in and with the water conjoined with our faith in that Word.” I’m not sure of your position on infant baptism, but I am not sure how Luther or any Reformed theologian could hold to this view while also confirming baptism of infants, unless they believe that the infants can process saving faith? Interesting question to think through. Thanks for the post.

I posted the following as a response (which is also part of a conversation between myself and a family member on Facebook recently) and wanted to share it for everyone to read:

Yes Ty, I do believe that infants can have saving faith. First, we’d have to agree on original sin. The Bible teaches that no one is righteous (Rom. 3:10). “All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God” (Rom. 3:23). The human heart is “deceitful above all things, and desperately sick” (Jer. 17:9). The natural man is dead in trespasses and sin (Eph 2:1). By nature, we pass “our days in malice and envy, hated by others and hating one another” (Titus 3:3). We are inclined toward evil (Gen 6:5), conceived in sin, and “brought forth in iniquity” (Psalm 51:5). All of us “like sheep have gone astray” (Isa. 53:6). Even “our righteous acts are like filthy rags” before the Lord (Isa. 64:6). We are by nature not just morally tainted, but “children of wrath,” deserving of God’s punishment, even before we actually sin in our flesh (Eph. 2:3). Even on the best of days, we are divided, doing what we don’t want to do and failing to do what we know is right (Rom. 7:18-19). Because of the Fall, we are hardwired toward evil. We sinned in Adam and died through his trespass, inheriting his guilt and a corrupt nature (see Rom. 5:12-21). In other words, we all deserve hell from the moment of our conception.

But God has provided a means for salvation: Christ’s death on the cross. And “all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death[.] We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.” Baptism is a way that infants can come to saving faith in Jesus.

So back to the question, “Can an infant have saving faith?” Think of John the Baptist, who leaped for joy while in his mother’s womb (Luke 1:44). Remember also that Jesus said that “if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a large millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea” (Matthew 18:6; Mark 9:42). Notice that He said little ones “who believe in me,” indicating that these little ones possessed genuine faith in Christ. The Greek for little ones in both of these passages is μικρων (mikron), which implies children under the age of three. Psalm 22:9-10 says, “Yet you brought me out of the womb; you made me trust in you even at my mother’s breast. From birth I was cast upon you; from my mother’s womb you have been my God.” 2 Timothy 3:15 points out how “how from infancy you have known the holy Scriptures. . . .” The word used for infancy in this passage is βρέφος (brephos), which means an unborn child, embryo, baby, or infant! God can clearly create faith in anyone’s hearts — even infants, mentally handicapped, and Alzheimer’s patients — because salvation does not depend on our own reasoning abilities. This might even offend our reason and sensibilities, but the Scriptures are clear that infants and children can and do have faith. A child is upheld in the Bible as the ultimate model for how to receive Christ as Lord, for Jesus said, “I tell you the truth, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven” (Matthew 18:3).

The Bible is careful to show how faith is a gift of God. “For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God” (Ephesians 2:8). The gift of God is precisely the faith through which salvation comes. “For to you it has been granted on behalf of Christ, not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for His sake” (Philippians 1:29). “You were raised with Him through faith in the working of God” (Colossians 2:12).

Faith is a gift, created by God’s Word. Once again, “Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God” (Romans 10:17). Of course, God does not do the believing for us. It is we, infants and adults, who believe, just as it is we who live, and yet just as God gives and sustains our life, so God gives and sustains our faith.

If you’ve ever got some free time, read my post entitled American Jesus: A Manifesto. It’s available at http://prayeramedic.com/2008/12/american-jesus-a-manifesto/. That will answer a lot of your questions about what I believe on these issues. I’m glad you enjoyed the post and thanks for stopping by!

So that was my response, let the madness ensue….

I’m having my own sort of cognitive dissonance right now with this blog. I’m re-evaluating some of my beliefs and viewpoints and am reading a lot from conflicting perspectives to help sort out my thinking. I apologize for the scarcity of posts during this time, I assure you I’ll make a strong comeback once I get my head together. For now I’m focusing on His Word and prayer and other resources to help me understand some positions and how they have come about historically. I’m also asking a lot of questions, and I’ll post one here for anyone who cares to try to answer it:

Revelation 20:1-3 (NIV) says: “And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key to the Abyss and holding in his hand a great chain. He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. After that, he must be set free for a short time.” I happen to be amillennial in my eschatological views, but this passage makes it clear that I must then believe that Satan is bound during the millennium and is thus being kept from deceiving the nations. This seems to be cognitively dissonant from what amillenials teach regarding Satan’s activity in the world today, even though this passage makes it clear that Satan is bound in the Abyss during the millennium. How do you reconcile these unscriptural teachings about Satan in light of Revelation 20 from an amillenialist perspective? (I’m not really interested in the premillenialist response, “because you’re end times view is wrong.” I’m just curious to see how someone might explain this from the amillenial perspective). I know it’s not a salvation issue, God will work out the end times in His own way, I’m just curious. . . .

A man asked a minister whether or not we are saved by works or by faith, to which the minister replied, “neither, we are saved by Christ.” Here’s a few words from Oswald Chambers speaking to this:

I am not saved by believing— I simply realize I am saved by believing. And it is not repentance that saves me— repentance is only the sign that I realize what God has done through Christ Jesus. The danger here is putting the emphasis on the effect, instead of on the cause. Is it my obedience, consecration, and dedication that make me right with God? It is never that! I am made right with God because, prior to all of that, Christ died. When I turn to God and by belief accept what God reveals, the miraculous atonement by the Cross of Christ instantly places me into a right relationship with God. And as a result of the supernatural miracle of God’s grace I stand justified, not because I am sorry for my sin, or because I have repented, but because of what Jesus has done. The Spirit of God brings justification with a shattering, radiant light, and I know that I am saved, even though I don’t know how it was accomplished.

So we are saved neither by works nor faith – we are saved by Jesus Christ.

H/T JOLLYBLOGGER

Not to add too much of my own thinking to weekly wisdom, but too many people like to uphold one of these three (faith, feelings, or facts) as the ultimate anchor of Christianity – yet in reality all three work together in our human experience. Just a neat thought. . . .
 
 

“Faith is a divine work which God demands of us; but at the same time He Himself must implant it. We cannot believe by ourselves.”
        - Martin Luther

That’s the message from Seth Godin in his book Tribes. But not in the sense of choosing to err, but rather the colloquial usage, acting like a leader and ’standing out’ from the rest. I just read a great blog post over at backyardmissionary.com about this. Some notable quotes from his post (which are from Tribes):

“Faith is critical to all innovation. Without faith its suicidal to be a leader, to act like a heretic. Religion on the other hand, represents a strict set of rules that our felow humans have laid on top of our faith. Religion supports the status quo and encourages us to fit in, not stand out.” p. 68

“Challenge religion and people wonder if you’re challenging their faith. Heretics challenge a given religion (he is using the word broadly to speak of systems and not specifically about ’spirituality’) but do it from a very strong foundation of faith”. In order to lead you must challenge the status quo of the religion you are living under” p. 70

I’d encourage you to check out backyardmissionary.com’s post. One last thought from Tribes:

When you fall in love with the system you lose the ability to grow” p.71

Yes, yes, I have not been writing much lately. OK, I haven’t written anything in the entire month it seems. December has been a busy month with Christmas and all, between all five of my families thanks to divorce, and other nonsense — busy. Not to mention I’m taking my final capstone course for my bachelor’s degree, and I’ve written close to forty pages for that paper so far… still going. Excuses, excuses — I know.

Anyways, if anyone is still reading this — I apologize. I do intend to post some more great content soon as life returns to the speed of normalcy. For now, to wet your appetite, I found a great article on the Emerging Church by Marcia Ford entitled The Emerging Church: Ancient Faith for a Postmodern World. In her excellent attempt to define the Emerging Church (which by nature refuses to be defined), she writes:

I am among those who have grown increasingly disenchanted with evangelicalism. Don’t get me wrong—I could sign, and have signed, any basic statement of faith issued by most evangelical ministries and companies. It’s not a problem of doctrine; it’s a problem of practice. . . .

Bear with me now as I engage in a bit of keyboard stammering, because this is the point where I need to define the emerging church. I’ll start by explaining what it is not: It’s not an organization, a denomination, or an association of churches; that kind of structure runs counter to the thinking of its adherents. (Even the word “adherents” is suspect, but let’s not get sidetracked.) It’s not an entity with a single doctrinal stance, though most in the movement could, like me, sign any standard evangelical statement of faith. It’s not—thank God!—another regimented program for the church to follow. And although it emerged as a reaction to church as usual, its leaders take care not to criticize or disparage people who are quite content with the usual church.

What the emerging church offers and encourages is a new way of doing church and being the church, one that resonates not only with the 18-to-34-year-old demographic—the first fully postmodern generation—but also with people who think like those in the younger demographic but are older in age. Or way older, like me. If you came to faith in Christ during the Jesus Movement of the 1970s as I did, you should readily understand the emerging church. Remember how we tried to create a whole new model based on Luke’s description of the early church in the book of Acts? Well, the emerging church is succeeding where we failed, for reasons I can only speculate about. Sometimes I think we just gave up too soon. We ended up with some decent alternatives for that time (think Vineyard Fellowship and Calvary Chapel), but that’s not what we really wanted. What we really wanted then is what they’re actually doing now.

So where can you find examples of the emerging church? Some postmodern-friendly churches have sprung from an intentional and interdenominational effort, such as Brian McLaren’s Cedar Ridge Community Church near Washington, D.C. Pretty much everyone in the emerging church recognizes McLaren as the movement’s elder statesman; his books, with titles like A New Kind of Christian and Adventures in Missing the Point (the latter with Tony Campolo), have helped define the emerging church.

Sometimes, the name of a particular church is a dead giveaway that it’s part of the movement, such as Scum of the Earth in Denver. Little question that it’s not, say, a Southern Baptist congregation. Many, like Solomon’s Porch in Minneapolis, which meets in a living room setting in an industrial building, see themselves as an experimental community. Still others aren’t really churches but ministries affiliated with traditional congregations, like The Crucible, a postmodern outreach of the huge Belmont Church in Nashville. Vintage Faith in Santa Cruz, California, Apex in Las Vegas, and Holy Joe’s in London are but a few others.

What all these groups have in common is this: They believe Jesus intended his followers to interact with the culture around them, not become an alien subculture. They adhere to the ancient creeds of the church. They emphasize the visual and performing arts and acknowledge the enormous influence pop culture has on society. As much as anything else, they believe in the communal and missional aspects of the church—the responsibility Jesus-followers have to each other and to those outside the faith. And they believe that as we draw closer to God, we draw closer to each other, despite the denominational boundaries that divide us. Emerging church evangelicals comfortably draw on the rich traditions and practices of the diverse streams of Christianity, believing that by genuinely living where our common faith intersects, we can surpass the efforts of even the most successful ecumenical programs.

Beyond that, there’s not always uniformity among the beliefs and practices in the emerging church, and its adherents would have it no other way. They believe faith is a journey rather than a destination, and each community of Christians needs to find its own way of continuing on that journey. Underscoring that idea are books like Doug Pagitt’s Reimagining Spiritual Formation: A Week in the Life of an Experimental Church—in this case, Solomon’s Porch. Like other leaders in the movement, Pagitt’s intention is to bring readers along on one church’s journey, not provide a rigid model for others to follow.

Among the many authors to pay attention to are Vintage Faith pastor Dan Kimball, author of The Emerging Church and Emerging Worship; Drew University professor Leonard Sweet (Postmodern Pilgrims; A Is for Abductive); youth pastor Tony Jones (Postmodern Youth Ministry; Read, Think, Pray, Live); Robert E. Webber, author of The Younger Evangelicals and Ancient-Future Faith: Rethinking Evangelicalism for a Postmodern World; Spencer Burke, Sally Morgenthaler—the list is far too extensive to include all the recommended authors here. For the most thorough collection of postmodern resources that I know of, go to www.agts.edu, click on “Free Resources,” and then click on the folder labeled “Emerging Culture/Emerging Church.” [DIRECT LINK] That will give you access to a PDF file of 1,700-plus resources amassed by Assemblies of God professor Earl Creps, a man for whom many in the emerging church movement give thanks daily.

As you discover more books and authors, you’ll see that the movement receives strong support from several publishing houses—Zondervan, particularly its emergentYS imprint; Relevant Books; Jossey-Bass; NavPress; and to some extent, Thomas Nelson, Baker Books, and Paraclete Press. Some of those publishers sponsored emerging church events at CBA, including a Zondervan/Relevant panel discussion designed to help booksellers discover what they need to do to reach the postmodern demographic.

Web sites to visit include www.emergentvillage.com and www.theooze.com, both of which provide links to partner ministries. Or simply enter “emerging church” into a good search engine like Google; once you start seeking information on the movement, you’ll discover that there’s a wealth of information available on the Internet. Enter the same term into the Amazon search function (on the main Christianity page, to narrow your choices), and you’ll find numerous books on postmodern ministry.

The emerging church is clearly in its infancy, with some leaders suggesting that it’s in the earliest stages of what could prove to be a 100-year-plus shift in our thinking about church. But no matter where it is on an unknown timeline, it’s a welcome relief for those of us who have longed for evangelicalism to become what we hoped and prayed and believed it could be—an authentic expression of our “ancient-future” faith.

That is a well-written article and says it well. I wanted to post that to show that you don’t have to be 18-35 to be considered postmodern or emerging, I know many who are older who fit into the category well. The funny thing is, the more traditional churches are in more of a position to reach this generation than most seeker-sensitive ones, but authenticity is the key. You must get back to the meaning of all traditions, not do them merely because it is the way you have always done them!

A good friend and spiritual father to me (1 Corinthians 4:15), Dick Rockenbach, recently asked me to begin thinking about the differences between the American Jesus and the Real Jesus — which is a really interesting topic. I had intended to first write a post about connections and evangelism, but that has been sitting in draft mode for almost a week now and I’ve developed writer’s block in regards to it. This topic is also far more pressing, because it gives me another opportunity to share the Gospel — and I’ll take all of those opportunities I can get!

I have been in some indirect email correspondence with David Breitenfeld, a friend of Dick’s, regarding this post. I’ll be quoting his emails to begin (with his permission).

It really bothers me that American Christianity really is no faith at all — it is missing some core elements. I posted some videos and frustrations about one such deception, the heresy of the sinner’s prayer, recently. But this is just one such product of America’s individualistic Christianity and me-centered Jesus.

The Origins of ‘Decision Theology’
Breitenfeld explains where this American theology originated:

Americanized Jesus is based on the reform doctrines of free will and the rejection of original sin, which dominated the early founding religious practices and denominations- basically reformed understanding.

Choice, Choice, and more Choice is the American motto. Our history as America is built on this idea. I think Charles Finney is the guy to give a lot of credit to for starting the “Altar Call” here in America. After him other people took up the practice “and with slight variations the new method spread with increasing popularity through Finney and, later, Dwight L. Moody, and finally into virtually all of nineteenth and twentieth century evangelicalism. Peter Cartwright, Sam Jones, R. A. Torrey, Billy Sunday, Bob Jones, Gipsy Smith, Mordacai Ham, John R. Rice, Billy Graham all employed the method with impressive success. The invitation system had come to stay (Source: http://www.biblicalstudies.com/bstudy/ecclesiology/altar.htm).

It was not practiced by others before him: prophets, priests, Jesus, disciples, apostles, early church fathers, Lutherans nor any of the other reformers.

Charles Finney believed that salvation depends on a person’s will to repent and it is not forced by God on people against their will.

“What was the content of Finney’s Christianity? Very simply, he disagreed with Scripture on some fundamental points. First, he denied original sin. In spite of the clear words of Psalm 51:5, he claimed that man does not come into this world at war with God and with a disposition to sin. Rather, his will is intact and he can choose to do good spiritual works apart from God’s Spirit working in his life. “Let him [the preacher] go right over against them, urge upon them their ability to obey God, show them their obligation and duty, and press them with that until he brings them to submit and be saved.”

This leads to the second and much more grievous error. If man can turn himself to God, then why does he need a Savior? The answer for Finney is, basically, man does not need a Savior – at least not in the scriptural sense! He is his own Savior. Finney does not view Jesus’ death as payment for the sins of human beings who cannot save themselves. Rather, Jesus’ death demonstrates God’s anger over sin and his great love for humankind. Jesus becomes merely an example of what we should do for God if we really love him – give ourselves totally up to him. This notion, the so-called “moral government” theory of the atonement, compromises the biblical doctrine of salvation, where Jesus came to offer his life as a ransom for imprisoned and helpless sinners (Matthew 20:28; Source: http://www.mtio.com/articles/bissar52.htm).

So Decision Theology is the American Jesus way. Man needing to control his life the way he intends and by his own understanding: choices and more choices. Now some may use the same words and same definitions, but it all hinges on man doing something, so that he can base his life on what he has done and gain confidence, that is the key. Oh, some may give credit to Jesus, or Christ died for my sins, etc (say the right words, but the firm foundation is based on “I gave..” or “I made a decision..”, “I said the Sinner Prayer..” By the Way, the sinful nature can not trust God or Jesus so as long as the person is calling the shots, he is made to believe he is saved.

David made some great points. I’d like to expound even more on what he said and clarify some points. We are not even able to make a decision to follow Christ. You are saved because God chose you. John 6:44 says, “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day.” John 6:63 says “It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life.” The Greek for 6:44 literally says that no one is capable of coming to Jesus unless the Father drags him. The phrase translated “no help at all” in 6:63 implies that the flesh cannot help, aid, benefit, profit, or gain anything – only the Spirit gives life. I’m not advocating Calvinism here, I’ve already explained in a past post that I view Calvinism, Arminianism, and Pelagianism as doctrinal extremes to be avoided. Keep reading and hear me out. . . .

We cannot do anything that results in our own salvation, including make a decision for Christ. That’s why Jesus likens salvation to being “born again.” How much of a role did you play in being born into the world? None. The same is true of your salvation. You were regenerated (born again) into it by the Holy Spirit creating faith in your heart, you may have responded to it by praying a sinner’s prayer, but that is not what saved you and it is not the moment you were saved. You were saved before you responded to it. In fact, Romans 5:8 points out that you are saved while dead in your sin — not after you give it up. You don’t have the power to give it up, the flesh is hostile to God and unable to give up sin and submit to God (Romans 8:7). Even repentance is a gift, not a work of our own (Acts 11:18; 2 Timothy 2:25). I encourage you to look up all of the Scriptures I quote in this post so that you can see this for yourself.

Justification is our salvation, it is when God counts Jesus’ righteousness as ours, and when He looks at us He sees only the perfection of Jesus. Justification is ENTIRELY God’s work; we have nothing to do with it. Sanctification is the process after we are saved in which we cooperate with the Holy Spirit to become more holy while on earth, before we are completely perfected in righteousness on the last day. Just as you cannot effect your birth, you have no role in justification. But when it comes to sanctification — you have a big role to play. You still must rely solely on Jesus to bear any fruit, but it does require an act of your will to choose to obey and submit to God. Just as you could commit suicide and thus end your physical life, you can commit spiritual suicide by choosing not to fellowship with Jesus Christ and other believers.

I know a lot of people who tell me that they can’t follow Christ because they aren’t ready to give up their sins. But they are unable to give up their sins, that’s the point! That’s why we needs Jesus in the first place. If we could choose to stop sinning and turn from sin on our own, what would we need Christ and His Spirit for? But that’s the problem with American Christianity, and that’s the problem with the sinner’s prayer. Americans like individualism; we believe we can control everything in our lives. And so we simply export that philosophy into our faith and abra cadabra! We choose to be saved. That’s not the case, though. We CANNOT choose to be saved, that’s the point. That’s why it is such a gracious act of God! Any method of salvation that involves my own reason or strength puts too much credit in the human race. We are completely depraved, completely spiritually bankrupt — inclined to evil all the time. Without the grace of God, we would die in our sins. But by the grace of God, God grants us repentance and the Holy Spirit creates faith in our hearts.

Gospel – Law = False Conversion
So if that’s the case, how can I accuse so many of not being saved, especially many so-called Christians who have prayed the sinner’s prayer? The problem is this: American preachers completely ignore God’s Law. The Law cannot save us. Romans 3:20 says it best: “No one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin.” The Law makes us aware of our sin. The American Gospel looks like this: “God loves you and has a wonderful plan for your life.” Anyone would accept that! And all you have to do is pray this prayer and you are saved. WRONG. What creates faith in our hearts? The Holy Spirit. How and why? Romans 10:17 — “Faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word of Christ.” Read the Gospels. Watch how Jesus spoke to people. He spoke Law to sinners who were secure in their sins in order to make them realize they were truly evil. To those who were already broken over their sins He spoke love, grace and truth. He revealed Himself to them. Americans rarely hear the Law, and thus are rarely broken over their sins. Brokenness is the fertile ground God seeks, not to hurt us, but to show us how utterly dependent we truly are on Him. A little earlier in that passage in Romans 10:9-10 is the passage sinner’s prayer advocates like to use in defense of it. It says essentially that if you confess with your mouth that “Jesus is Lord” and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you shall be saved. This is true, but we must put the verse back into its context! Check out Romans 10:1-4. Paul is pointing out how the Israelites were zealous for God, but had no knowledge of Him. They tried to establish their own righteousness instead of trusting completely in the fact that they are only saved by grace! The point is not to ask people merely to confess something and if they really believe it they are saved, the point is that people are zealous for God without really knowing who He is, and they are trusting in themselves and their own deeds rather than trusting in the perfect sacrifice of Jesus Christ alone to atone for their sins.

Because preachers are not preaching the Law, people are not truly broken over their sins, and they still believe that they are essentially good people. No one can come to God believing he is already good apart from Him. We can’t even approach Him in that mindset. That’s because if we believe we are a good person, we are proud. Pride is the root of all sin, and it is the original sin that caused Lucifer to fall and thereby become Satan. The reason pride is so evil is because it is by nature competitive. C.S. Lewis explains this well in his best-seller, Mere Christianity:

Each person’s pride is in competition with every one else’s pride. . . . Two of a trade never agree. . . . Pride is essentially competitive – is competitive by its very nature – while the other vices are competitive only, so to speak, by accident. Pride gets no pleasure out of having something, only out of having more of it than the next man. We say that people are proud of being rich, or clever, or good-looking, but they are not. They are proud of being richer, or cleverer, or better-looking than others. If everyone else became equally rich, or clever, or good-looking there would be nothing to be proud about. It is the comparison that makes you proud: the pleasure of being above the rest. Once the element of competition has gone, pride has gone.

So why is this relevant? Because we don’t simply think we are good, we believe we are better than others. This is why so many so-called Christians run around today acting “holier than thou.” They believe they are better than others, whom they label “sinners.” Even when we come to Christ, we are no better than the lowliest murderer, we simply are blessed to have been found by God’s amazing grace, and we ought to desire for the murderer to come to partake of this same grace. A sinner who has truly been broken over his sins understands his evil nature and praises Christ for saving him from it. Dan Kimball said that “there is more ministry occurring in the A.A. meeting in the basement of the church than in the Sunday morning service above it.” There is a lot of truth in that statement. Whether someone has been sober 40 minutes, 40 days, or 40 years, they don’t judge the new alcoholic who stumbles in the door – because they remember when they were in that condition – or possibly even worse off. Christians don’t simply forget where they’ve came from, they don’t believe they have ever been bad in the first place.

The Real Gospel Offends People
The Gospel is truly an offensive message. That’s why Paul says in 1 Corinthians 1:23 that “we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles.” Nobody likes being told they are bad or evil, no one especially likes being told they deserve death because they are evil, and everyone hates being told that they cannot do anything about it, they don’t even have that option. In an effort to remove the necessary offense of the Gospel, many American preachers no longer preach the Law, which shows us our need of a Savior by showing us how rotten we really are. The Law brings us to a point of desperation where we realize that we deserve death and can do nothing to change our course from hell, and just at that moment the Gospel should be explained to us. Conversion occurs when a person learns from the law that he or she is a lost and condemned sinner and then comes to faith in the Gospel, which offers them forgiveness of sins and eternal salvation because Christ died in our place on the cross. The Holy Spirit draws the believer to Christ through the Word and creates faith in his or her heart.

1 John 1:6-10 says that “If we claim to have fellowship with him yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live by the truth. But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin. If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives.”

Too many people have never been truly broken over their sins and have never truly known Jesus Christ. Sadly, they’ve never come to understand the magnitude of what He desires so desperately to do in their lives. While we can do nothing to become saved, we can do a lot to resist the operation of the Holy Spirit in our hearts. If we do not believe we are evil without Christ (meaning even the nicest thing I do is an evil deed without it being centered on and done in Christ and giving Him glory), then we cannot know God. Isaiah 64:6 says that “All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags; we all shrivel up like a leaf, and like the wind our sins sweep us away.” Did you catch that? All of our righteous acts are like filthy rags, the implication here is a menstrual cloth. In other words, even with all of the good deeds Mother Theresa did, if she trusted in the Roman Catholic doctrine of works-salvation she died in her sin. Because no matter how many good deeds you do, you cannot enter heaven. Only when we recognize this and give up and stop trying will we be able to simply accept God’s grace, the fact that He has done everything and we are not even capable of doing anything.

If we are proud, we are always looking down on others, because we believe ourselves to be better. If we are always looking down, we cannot look up and see God. “God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble” (James 4:6). God’s laws and commands were not given to us to give us as a road map to heaven so we can find our own way there; they were given to prove to us that we really are lost! I love quoting this:

“‘Run, John, run,’ the Law commands,
But gives us neither feet nor hands.
Far better news the Gospel brings,
That bids us fly and gives us wings!”
       – John Bunyan in “The Pilgrim’s Progress”

God isn’t in the home improvement business. He isn’t remodeling. He’s into demolition and construction. New life in Christ means death to the old life in self.

The central truth of the Christian faith is that Jesus Christ died in our place, not because it was the nice thing to do, but because it was the only thing He could do to rescue us from hell. He took on Himself the punishment we deserve so that, through faith in Him, we could have peace and eternal life with God. Somehow this message has gotten lost, muddied up, and watered down by well-meaning people who’ve forgotten that Christ will offend – must offend – us, or He can’t help us. It has to hurt, or no spiritual surgery is occurring.

Herein lies the danger of the sinner’s prayer. Unregenerate people who have never come to a point of brokenness are lead to believe they are now saved because they prayed a prayer and believed in a bulleted list of doctrines about Jesus. The Gospel is not a checklist – it’s a person. Jesus Christ is the Gospel, and we cannot even approach Him because He is so holy. The miracle is that He became a man and chose to approach us, and He died for us while we spat at Him, beat Him, and nailed Him to the cross. That’s the love of Jesus. That’s the amazing “good news”, or Gospel.

The Magnitude of the Fall
This becomes particularly amazing when we consider those things that can effect our reasoning abilities. If my salvation depends on my understanding and recollection of a decision I made, then what happens if I later develop Alzheimer’s and involuntarily begin using profanity all the time in my old age (I’ve seen this happen to a very upstanding pastor)? Do I lose my salvation? Of course not — but not because I am no longer “accountable” for my sins.

God created man in his own image and after the likeness of God (Genesis 1:26-27). Sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned (Genesis 2:17; Romans 5:12-21). Because of this we are born into what is called original sin (Psalms 51:5), meaning that man has lost his spiritual life, becoming dead in trespasses and sins, and he has become subject to the power of the devil (Genesis 6:5; Psalms 14:1-3; 1 Timothy 5:6). Therefore every child of Adam is born into the world with a nature which not only possesses no spark of divine life, but is essentially and unchangeably bad apart from divine grace (Jeremiah 17:9; John 3:6; Romans 3:10-19; 8:6-7; 1 John 3:8).

We are by nature sinful, we are born deserving death — even in the womb (Psalm 51:5; Romans 6:23). But if faith was created in me by a work of God and not by a work of my own — I have nothing to fear — because “He who promised is faithful” (Hebrews 10:23). What if a woman miscarries a child? Is the child going to heaven simply because they have not yet reached the non-scriptural “age of accountability?” The Bible seems to indicate that from the moment of conception that child was sinful and worthy of death and damnation because of original sin — something Finney and America have rejected, because Americans don’t want to face the magnitude of sin. Now do I think that baby is going to hell? A reminder about what Romans 10:17 says about faith is in order: “Faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word of Christ.” If the mother had read Scripture aloud during her pregnancy, or if the Word was being preached in church and the child ‘heard’ it, then God can (and I believe does) create faith in that child’s heart.

Allow me to give a short explanation of the Scriptures here. Think of John the Baptist, who leaped for joy while in his mother’s womb (Luke 1:44). Remember also that Jesus said that “if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a large millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea” (Matthew 18:6; Mark 9:42). Notice that He said little ones “who believe in me,” indicating that these little ones possessed genuine faith in Christ. The Greek for little ones in both of these passages is μικρων (mikron), which implies children under the age of three. Psalm 22:9-10 says, “Yet you brought me out of the womb; you made me trust in you even at my mother’s breast. From birth I was cast upon you; from my mother’s womb you have been my God.” 2 Timothy 3:15 points out how “how from infancy you have known the holy Scriptures. . . .” The word used for infancy in this passage is βρέφος (brephos), which means an unborn child, embryo, baby, or infant! God can clearly create faith in anyone’s hearts — even infants, mentally handicapped, and Alzheimer’s patients — because salvation does not depend on our own reasoning abilities. This might even offend our reason and sensibilities, but the Scriptures are clear that infants and children can and do have faith. A child is upheld in the Bible as the ultimate model for how to receive Christ as Lord, for Jesus said, “I tell you the truth, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven” (Matthew 18:3).

The Bible is careful to show how faith is a gift of God. “For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God” (Ephesians 2:8). The gift of God is precisely the faith through which salvation comes. “For to you it has been granted on behalf of Christ, not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for His sake” (Philippians 1:29). “You were raised with Him through faith in the working of God” (Colossians 2:12).

Faith is a gift, created by God’s Word. Once again, “Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God” (Romans 10:17). Of course, God does not do the believing for us. It is we, infants and adults, who believe, just as it is we who live, and yet just as God gives and sustains our life, so God gives and sustains our faith.

Counting the Cost
Jesus always asked His disciples to count the cost of following Him. Becoming a Christian is dangerous to us – our pride, reputation, etc. “Jesus said to his disciples, “If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for me will find it” (Matthew 16:24-25). Too many people are looking for fire insurance and not sacrifice. But to listen to today’s preachers, you would think that becoming a Christian is a simple three step process. Remember when the rich man asked Jesus how to be saved? He told him to go sell everything he had and give it the poor, then he would have treasure in heaven. When the man walked away sad, He didn’t chase after him and lead him in a prayer. If you wish to become a Christian you must surrender everything to God. Without God this is impossible, but through Him it is not (Matthew 19:25-26). If this appears to be difficult, it is because we value something more than God. We need to hear the Law. The Law will help us realize that without Christ we have nothing and nothing is more valuable than Him! In Matthew 13:44 Jesus says “The kingdom of heaven is like treasure hidden in a field. When a man found it, he hid it again, and then in his joy went and sold all he had and bought that field.” When we recognize how much we need Christ and how amazing His love is that He would die for people as unworthy as we are, out of joy and gratitude we would give up all we have to simply know Christ.

I don’t lead people in a prayer or do altar calls. I refuse to turn a relationship into a formula. You need to approach God your own way, but you will only discover that He has already approached you – and that’s the beauty of it. Philippians 2:12-13 says “continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you to will and to act according to his good purpose.” Notice God is the one working in us to help us want to do what He asks of us.

This is precisely the promise made regarding the new covenant in Christ which can be found in Ezekiel 36:25-27 –

“I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your impurities and from all your idols. I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws.”

In the Hebrew, the last phrase says that God will place His Spirit in you and CAUSE you to obey. If we are saved, we bear the fruit of salvation – good works. These works do not get us saved nor do they continue our salvation – only Jesus’ righteousness counts for our salvation – nothing we do or don’t do has any bearing on that. But if we truly are saved, then we will bear fruit. Jesus said, “Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.” But He also said, “Remain in me, and I will remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me.” That simply goes to demonstrate what I’ve been saying so far. Everything we do that is “good” is merely out of God’s grace; we bear fruit because of the Holy Spirit’s work in our lives. John 15:8 says, “This is to my Father’s glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples.” James 2:14-26 explains this very well. Verse 17 says that “faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.” This is why many Reformed preachers say that we are saved by faith alone, but not by a faith that is alone. Saving faith produces fruit in keeping with repentance (Matthew 3:8). The works themselves do not save us; they are the evidence of saving faith. We do them out of gratitude for what He has done in our lives and we are motivated to do them by the Holy Spirit, who as Ezekiel wrote, “causes us to obey.”

The main idea here is that good works cannot earn nor secure our eternal salvation; however, a true and living faith will bear the fruit of good works. The difference can be seen in our motivation. A living faith will bear good deeds out of gratitude for the love of God found only in Christ Jesus. A person trying to secure his or her salvation under the Law will be driven by guilt and a necessity to do good things in order to be in a right standing before God. This includes daily prayer and meditation. If these acts are driven by a sense of obligation, they are mere ritual observances bound by the Law. But if Christ’s love compels us to do these things, then we will experience the true joy of our relationship with God.

What happens weekly in American churches is similar to what happened in Luke 18:9-14:

To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everybody else, Jesus told this parable: “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee stood up and prayed about himself: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other men—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’

“But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’

“I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.”

Both men prayed, no one lead them in prayer – but only one man’s prayer was heard. The first man was ignored because of his pride, just as God must ignore many Americans’ prayers because of our pride. In Matthew 19:24 Jesus explains how “it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.” Many in the world live on less than $2 a day. Almost EVERYONE in America is rich. Because of this we are complacent and have many distractions to keep us from God. In Matthew 7:13-14 Jesus says, “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.” That doesn’t sound like the American Gospel, but then again, many Americans don’t trust in the real Jesus, they trust in an American Jesus – who is no Savior at all.

Many professing Christians are trusting in the sincerity of their decision rather than looking onto the finished work of Christ. True salvation results in a person hating the sin they once loved and loving the God they once hated. Yes we still sin while on earth, but in God’s eyes, we are perfect. Jesus’ righteousness gets credited to our accounts and THAT is what gets us into heaven – not a decision we make or a prayer we say. We can rely on nothing but Christ’s perfect work at Calvary, because “God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God” (2 Corinthians 5:21), “not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ—the righteousness that comes from God and is by faith” (Philippians 3:9).

“To all who received Him, to those who believed in His name, He gave the right to become children of God – children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God” (John 1:12-13). Notice we cannot be born into His kingdom through human decision, but by God alone – He gives us the right or ability to be His children, we cannot earn it or decide it.

I hope I created more clarity than confusion, but then again, Jesus continuously confused His disciples, and He rarely took the time to explain Himself to everyone. Not that this should be a goal of Christians, but the Bible has many “tensions” that may not be entirely rational at first glance for a reason. God is so much bigger and more intelligent than us that it is likely impossible for Him to explain everything in a language we can actually grasp. Consider it truth from another dimension.

I apologize for allowing this to become a manifesto rather than just a regular post, but it is crucial to understand that a majority of churches in America preach an American Jesus and a Decision Theology that places salvation in my hands, or at least allows me to be a participant in it. This is simply not what the Bible teaches! And believing this causes me to trust in myself and not solely in Christ for my salvation — the real Jesus, not the American Jesus who gives me the choice to accept or reject Him, as though my own will were intact and sufficient enough to determine my eternal destiny. The offense of the Gospel is that I don’t even have the ability to choose to do the right thing without Him, He must do it all for me. Our reasoning abilities are not a prerequisite for faith as the American Jesus teaches, but rather they are often a hindrance to it.

The Real Jesus, Jesus Christ of Nazareth who was crucified for our sins, is a very rugged individual who doesn’t fit into the neat little boxes we like to make for Him. I often have said that if Jesus were to come to America, the church wouldn’t pray to Him, they’d pray for Him. He would be too abrasive, too politically incorrect, too angry (even though His zealous anger is justified), and too confusing for most folks. He would confront secure sinners with the Law and make a lot of people uncomfortable. Jesus would cause many to question their salvation — but I think that’s a healthy thing. For if we rely on anything or anyone but Him and His work on the Cross for our redemption, maybe we don’t really know Him. Maybe we have been trusting in a fictitious American Jesus.

I’ve spoken before about the tensions in our faith: Law and Gospel, Sinner and Saint, etc. I also talk about it some in the About page on this site. I have been participating in a really good conversation lately in the comments section of one of Daniel and Heather’s blog posts entitled, Reflecting on the Trinity…………. They pose the question: “What are some of your thoughts on the trinity, and how [does] our understanding of these relationships affect the way we should live with each other as the Body?” I commented about how I was having a discussion about this with Pastor Nar on Facebook recently. He said something profound that I will continue to use:

“The Trinity is not a doctrine I believe, it’s a relationship I embrace.”

Someone then (anonymously) left a comment which I thought was profound. I thought a lot of them were great, but this one jumped out at me:

Reformed theology is simply biblical theology without the rationalization. It takes all of Scripture and holds them together with all it’s tension. For example: “Jesus is 100% man & 100% God”. “God is absolutely sovereign and man is a 100% responsible free agent.” “Salvation if 100% free, but it will also cost you everything”, “There is only one God, but three persons”. etc…. Both truths in each statement seem to be contradictory doctrines but are biblical truths at the same time. Mystery is certainly involved and there is tension in these doctrines that we cannot explain. It’s when you leave historic Reformed theology that you begin to rationalize things in Scripture. Arminian theology down-plays the sovereignty of God and has a host of verses it must explain away. Hyper-Calvinism down-plays human responsibility and it also has a host of Scriptures to explain away….

Very interesting, and very true. Let’s look at the tension between Law and Gospel for instance. The Law demands absolute perfection as the standard of holiness. Any failure causes one to be responsible for breaking the entire law. The just sentence for breaking the law is death and eternal punishment. There is no way out of this — not in the Old or New Covenant. The Gospel is the “good news” that Jesus has taken our sin upon Himself that we might become the righteousness of God in Him (2 Corinthians 5:21). While this is offered free to us, it is not free — it came at a great price and carries a great cost (another tension). Many Christians fail to maintain this tension, leaning towards one end or the other — both lead to death. They are both fully true. God’s standard has not changed, nor has he become more lax in dealing with mankind. “The wages of sin is death” (Romans 6:23). A failure to take sin or grace seriously results in a falsehood. Both cost us a lot, yet both are freely available to us.

The relationship between faith and works is another one that tripped me up for a few years. On one hand, good works cannot contribute anything to your salvation (Ephesians 2:8-9); on the other hand, if you don’t do them you are not saved (James 2:17). It took me awhile to figure out that the main idea here is that good works cannot earn nor secure our eternal salvation; however, a true and living faith will bear the fruit of good works. The difference can be seen in our motivation. A living faith will bear good deeds out of gratitude for the love of God found only in Christ Jesus. A person trying to secure his or her salvation under the Law will be driven by guilt and a necessity to do good things in order to be in a right standing before God. This includes daily prayer and meditation. If these acts are driven by a sense of obligation, they are mere ritual observances bound by the Law. But if Christ’s love compels us to do these things, then we will experience the true joy of our relationship with God.

The anonymous quote mentions Arminianism vs. Hyper-Calvinism. I won’t bore you with too many details, I’ll just give you a simple breakdown of the two sides, which actually represents another great tension of the Bible. I use the term “stereotypical” for both because each side argues that their opponent skews their beliefs into “Hyper-Calvinism” or into “Hyper-Arminianism / Pelagianism.”

Stereotypical Arminianism holds to the following tenets:

• Atonement is for all people: Jesus died for everyone, not just for the elect.
• Grace is resistable: The offer of salvation through grace does not act irresistibly in a purely cause-effect, deterministic method but rather in an influence-and-response fashion that can be both freely accepted and freely denied.
• God’s election is conditional on faith in Jesus
• Salvation can be lost, as continued salvation is conditional upon continued faith

Stereotypical Calvinism adopts what many call the TULIP model, which stands for:

• Total Depravity: We are completely dead in our trespasses and sins, we can do absolutely nothing to bring ourselves even one inch closer to salvation in Christ.
• Unconditional Election: Since, a dead person is unable do anything on their own, they are unable to choose God. So God out of love chooses those who are dead in their trespasses and sins.
• Limited Redemption: When Jesus Christ died on the cross for our sins, His Blood was sufficient for all, but is only efficient for those who believe in Him.
• Irresistible Grace: Since we are completely dead in our sins, we do not have the ability to choose God nor reject Him. He chooses us and completely saves us with no cooperation or effort of our own.
• Perseverance of the Saints: Another term used for Perseverance of the Saints is Eternal Security. This is best summed up by saying once you are saved, you are always saved and can never fall away. Since nothing you can do gets you saved, nothing you can do can cause you to lose your salvation.

Now I could spend hours unpacking both of these doctrinal extremes, but they are just that, extremes. There is a great tension in the Bible about whether or not we can lose our salvation — and the tension must remain. We get into doctrinal trouble when we try to put God into a logical box and turn revealed truth into bulleted lists and acronyms. Arminianism and Calvinism are both doctrinal extremes which are to be avoided, the truth lies in the middle. Both are man-made doctrines, and neither are entirely scriptural. The way I answer this question these days is simple: whether you lost your salvation or whether you never had it in the first place, the bottom line is that you need it now. Rather than skirting around the real issue, why not get to the heart of it. When the Pharisees tried to trip Jesus up using doctrinal conundrums, He always spoke to their hearts — not to their minds. He refused to be defined or cornered.

One thing that Christians like to do is put labels on people and put them into neat little boxes. Consequently we try to do the same thing with God. We do this with denominational labels, theological terms, political designators, etc. I think a big part of being a Christ follower is refusing to be labeled by worldly standards. David Kinnaman, in his book unChristian writes:

[Jesus] was not willing to be defined by His enemies. When His detractors wanted Him to make a clear statement against something, He always seemed to redefine the boundaries of the debate. He kept opponents off-balance, leaving them flustered. If His inquisitors tried to corner Jesus about religious laws, customs, and restrictions, His response was often to raise another question or tell a story that changed the parameters of the argument. Should the Sabbath be kept holy? Of course, but for what reason? Should He associate with sinners? Who needs real help, anyway? Should the woman “waste” money perfuming Jesus’ feet? If she is baring her soul and honoring God, what’s your problem exactly?

The only labeled allegiance we should really have as believers is allegiance to the kingdom of God. In other areas, we should be constantly encouraging people to look at the world relationally. Issues are important, but only because they affect people. People are the real focus, and people are best affected through relationships. If we lose sight of the real focus, we may be tempted to argue issues from an ideological or philosophical standpoint, completely removed from the actual focal point. This is what happens when Christians spend more time trying to impose moral standards on society through legislation (the recent California gay marriage ruling, pro-life legislation), rather than showing people Jesus and His love by befriending them.

Christianity 2.0 could care less about setting up “doctrinal camps” or labeling every scriptural ideology under the sun. It is far more concerned with relationships, getting back to what the faith is all about — people. The Church is the Body of Christ, His Bride, His chosen people, a royal priesthood. It is not an organization, but an organism. Attempting to resolve the tensions of the Bible in our finite minds results in heresy. Returning to what Pastor Nar said about the Trinity, “It is not is not a doctrine I believe, it’s a relationship I embrace.” That says it pretty well. We must embrace doctrine as it relates to how we live, not just to how we think. It’s easy to keep God at shoulder’s length by treating His word as a philosophy text, rather than as a love letter and life manual. My advice: don’t resolve the tensions. They are there for a reason. . . .

• What other “tensions” of our faith can you think of?
• Do the tensions you came up with come from the Bible or from man’s finite logic?
• Have you ever been confused about an issue in the Bible, only to have it make sense when the situation was later reframed? Do you suppose Jesus “reframed” a lot of conversations for this reason?
• Do you think it’s possible that it is impossible to grasp many truths about the nature of God due to the limitations of our dimension, i.e. time and space?