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	<title>prayeramedic.com &#187; George Barna</title>
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	<link>http://prayeramedic.com</link>
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		<title>Numerical growth as a double standard</title>
		<link>http://prayeramedic.com/2009/10/numerical-growth-as-a-double-standard/</link>
		<comments>http://prayeramedic.com/2009/10/numerical-growth-as-a-double-standard/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Oct 2009 02:06:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Dan</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Church]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Church Marketing]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Emerging Trends]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[attendance]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[church growth]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[decline]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[George Barna]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[ministry]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[progress]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[statistics]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prayeramedic.com/?p=1070</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#8217;ve been reading Why We Love the Church: In Praise of Institutions and Organized Religion lately, and I ran across a great point I wanted to share: &#8220;Fix-the-church books almost always figure that declining church attendance &#8230; means the church has messed something up. Even though the new crop of church books decry the old [...]


Related posts:<ol><li><a href='http://prayeramedic.com/2010/05/should-churches-compete-with-each-other/' rel='bookmark' title='Should churches compete with each other?'>Should churches compete with each other?</a></li>
<li><a href='http://prayeramedic.com/2010/02/the-customer-isnt-right/' rel='bookmark' title='The customer isn’t right'>The customer isn’t right</a></li>
<li><a href='http://prayeramedic.com/2009/08/how-to-measure-ministry-progress/' rel='bookmark' title='How to Measure Ministry Progress'>How to Measure Ministry Progress</a></li>
</ol>]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve been reading <a class="dot" href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0802458378?ie=UTF8&#038;tag=prayeramedic-20&#038;linkCode=as2&#038;camp=1789&#038;creative=390957&#038;creativeASIN=0802458378"><em>Why We Love the Church: In Praise of Institutions and Organized Religion</em></a><img src="http://www.assoc-amazon.com/e/ir?t=prayeramedic-20&#038;l=as2&#038;o=1&#038;a=0802458378" width="1" height="1" border="0" alt="" style="border:none !important; margin:0px !important;" /> lately, and I ran across a great point I wanted to share:</p>
<blockquote><p>&#8220;Fix-the-church books almost always figure that declining church attendance &#8230; means the church has messed something up. Even though the new crop of church books decry the old church-growth models, they still operate with the same basic assumption: namely, that churches should be growing and something is wrong with the church that isn&#8217;t.</p>
<p>This assumption, however, is alien to the New Testament. Didn&#8217;t Jesus say tell us that &#8220;the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few&#8221; (Matt. 7:14)? Wasn&#8217;t the early church of Philadelphia commended by the Lord Jesus even though they were facing opposition and had &#8220;little power&#8221; (Rev. 3:7-13)? There is simply no biblical teaching to indicate that church size is the measure of success.</p></blockquote>
<p>I&#8217;ve written before that <a class="dot" href="http://prayeramedic.com/2009/08/how-to-measure-ministry-progress">ministry progress is not measured by numerical growth, but by the creation of disciples who make other disciples.</a> But this post is exposing the double standard, those who would &#8220;have their cake and eat it, too.&#8221;</p>
<p>Authors like George Barna like to use statistics showing the decline in church attendance to damn the church, but then quickly defend the 5-person house church because <a class="dot" href="http://prayeramedic.com/2009/08/how-to-measure-ministry-progress">&#8220;progress is not measured by numbers.&#8221;</a> So if the institutional church is losing numbers, it is <em>always</em> because they are doing church wrong. But if organic churches are not growing, then it&#8217;s for some other reason. All I&#8217;m asking for here is fairness. Isn&#8217;t it possible that a particular church isn&#8217;t growing because it is rightly teaching Law and Gospel and people don&#8217;t like to hear it? Isn&#8217;t it possible that a particular organic church isn&#8217;t growing because of the home leader&#8217;s pride? It works both ways, which is why <a class="dot" href="http://prayeramedic.com/2009/08/how-to-measure-ministry-progress">numbers are not a good indicator of spiritual maturity nor ministry progress</a>, no matter what church model we&#8217;re discussing.</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>


<p>Related posts:<ol><li><a href='http://prayeramedic.com/2010/05/should-churches-compete-with-each-other/' rel='bookmark' title='Should churches compete with each other?'>Should churches compete with each other?</a></li>
<li><a href='http://prayeramedic.com/2010/02/the-customer-isnt-right/' rel='bookmark' title='The customer isn’t right'>The customer isn’t right</a></li>
<li><a href='http://prayeramedic.com/2009/08/how-to-measure-ministry-progress/' rel='bookmark' title='How to Measure Ministry Progress'>How to Measure Ministry Progress</a></li>
</ol></p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<slash:comments>6</slash:comments>
		</item>
		<item>
		<title>Pagan Christianity</title>
		<link>http://prayeramedic.com/2008/10/pagan-christianity-part-1/</link>
		<comments>http://prayeramedic.com/2008/10/pagan-christianity-part-1/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Oct 2008 20:32:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Dan</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Christianity 2.0]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Church]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Frank Viola]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[George Barna]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Pagan Christianity]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://390days.com/?p=72</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This is my first post on Frank Viola and George Barna&#8217;s book entitled Pagan Christianity?: Exploring the Roots of Our Church Practices. Both Barna and Viola have been strong voices in the Christianity 2.0 dialogue. The authors contend that because of pagan influence and five centuries of tradition following it, the church today has become [...]


Related posts:<ol><li><a href='http://prayeramedic.com/2008/10/what-is-christianity-20/' rel='bookmark' title='What is Christianity 2.0?'>What is Christianity 2.0?</a></li>
<li><a href='http://prayeramedic.com/2009/01/ianity-a-christless-christianity/' rel='bookmark' title='?-ianity, a Christless Christianity'>?-ianity, a Christless Christianity</a></li>
<li><a href='http://prayeramedic.com/2010/05/canceling-church-to-do-service-projects/' rel='bookmark' title='Canceling church to do service projects'>Canceling church to do service projects</a></li>
</ol>]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><iframe src="http://rcm.amazon.com/e/cm?t=prayeramedic-20&#038;o=1&#038;p=8&#038;l=as1&#038;asins=141431485X&#038;fc1=000000&#038;IS2=1&#038;lt1=_blank&#038;m=amazon&#038;lc1=0000FF&#038;bc1=000000&#038;bg1=FFFFFF&#038;f=ifr" style="width:120px;height:240px;" scrolling="no" marginwidth="0" marginheight="0" frameborder="0" class="alignright"></iframe>This is my first post on Frank Viola and George Barna&#8217;s book entitled <em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/141431485X?ie=UTF8&#038;tag=prayeramedic-20&#038;linkCode=as2&#038;camp=1789&#038;creative=9325&#038;creativeASIN=141431485X">Pagan Christianity?: Exploring the Roots of Our Church Practices</a><img src="http://www.assoc-amazon.com/e/ir?t=prayeramedic-20&#038;l=as2&#038;o=1&#038;a=141431485X" width="1" height="1" border="0" alt="" style="border:none !important; margin:0px !important;" /></em>. Both Barna and Viola have been strong voices in the Christianity 2.0 dialogue. The authors contend that because of pagan influence and five centuries of tradition following it, the church today has become an institution rather than an organism. They show this by clearly teaching how this came about in church history, and give lots of examples and scripture. I am only about a quarter of the way through the book now and I am fascinated by it. It has been causing me to ask a lot of questions, some of which will (and have) become blog posts. Recently at <a href="http://www.prayeramedic.com" target="_blank">prayeramedic.com</a>, I posed the question, <a href="http://prayeramedic.blogspot.com/2008/10/separation-of-clergy-and-laity.html" target="_blank">&#8220;Is there any biblical support for the separation of clergy and laity?&#8221;</a> This is one of many questions <em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/141431485X?ie=UTF8&#038;tag=prayeramedic-20&#038;linkCode=as2&#038;camp=1789&#038;creative=9325&#038;creativeASIN=141431485X">Pagan Christianity</a><img src="http://www.assoc-amazon.com/e/ir?t=prayeramedic-20&#038;l=as2&#038;o=1&#038;a=141431485X" width="1" height="1" border="0" alt="" style="border:none !important; margin:0px !important;" /></em> is causing me to ask. I have always wondered why church is so boring and predictable. I&#8217;ve been saying for awhile that if I ran a church I would make everyone sit at round tables and build relationships, rather than have everyone face one man, the pastor. It seems I wasn&#8217;t alone in my thinking. Allow me to quote the back cover introduction for you:</p>
<blockquote><p>Are we really doing church &#8220;by the book&#8221;? Why does the pastor preach a sermon at every service? Why do church services seem so similar week after week? Why does the congregation sit passively in pews?</p>
<p>Not sure? This book makes an unsettling proposal: MOST OF WHAT PRESENT-DAY CHRISTIANS DO IN CHURCH EACH SUNDAY IS ROOTED, NOT IN THE NEW TESTAMENT, BUT IN PAGAN CULTURE AND RITUALS DEVELOPED LONG AFTER THE DEATH OF THE APOSTLES. Authors Frank Viola and George Barna support their thesis with compelling historical evidence and extensive footnotes that document the origins of our modern Christian church practices.</p>
<p>In the process, the authors uncover the problems that emerge when the church functions more like a business organization than the living organism it was created to be. As you reconsider Christ&#8217;s revolutionary plan for His church&#8211;to be the head of a fully functioning body in which all believers play an active role&#8211;you&#8217;ll be challenged to decide whether you can ever do church the same way again.</p></blockquote>
<p>These are some great questions to ponder and research. Clicking on the title of the book anywhere in this post will take you to an Amazon page where you can order it at a discounted rate than you will find in most bookstores. <em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/141431485X?ie=UTF8&#038;tag=prayeramedic-20&#038;linkCode=as2&#038;camp=1789&#038;creative=9325&#038;creativeASIN=141431485X">Pagan Christianity?: Exploring the Roots of Our Church Practices</a><img src="http://www.assoc-amazon.com/e/ir?t=prayeramedic-20&#038;l=as2&#038;o=1&#038;a=141431485X" width="1" height="1" border="0" alt="" style="border:none !important; margin:0px !important;" /></em> is a break-through book in the world of Christianity.</p>
<p>Tiffany and I currently attend what some may call a &#8220;cutting edge&#8221; church. We meet in a warehouse, have a wrestling ring in the sanctuary, and dress extremely casually. Yet despite it&#8217;s non-traditional setting, it&#8217;s still a traditional church. The order of service is almost identical from week to week:</p>
<ul>
<li>Opening song</li>
<li>Hug n&#8217; Howdy (our version of sharing the peace, meet and greet)</li>
<li>Two or three more songs</li>
<li>Communion / Lord&#8217;s Supper</li>
<li>Offering</li>
<li>Prayer</li>
<li>Sermon</li>
<li>Invitational song</li>
<li>Announcements</li>
<li>Closing song</li>
<li>Dismissal</li>
</ul>
<p><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/141431485X?ie=UTF8&#038;tag=prayeramedic-20&#038;linkCode=as2&#038;camp=1789&#038;creative=9325&#038;creativeASIN=141431485X">Pagan Christianity</a><img src="http://www.assoc-amazon.com/e/ir?t=prayeramedic-20&#038;l=as2&#038;o=1&#038;a=141431485X" width="1" height="1" border="0" alt="" style="border:none !important; margin:0px !important;" /></em> addresses how the Protestant worship order really hasn&#8217;t changed all that much in five centuries. And it drives my wife and I crazy! Why don&#8217;t people think out of the box a little bit more? I think Christianity 2.0 will by marked by this sort of revolution. Services will be unpredictable, because Jesus Christ will guide them, not an outdated order of service (Note: I do not have anything against my church, it is merely a product of the same ignorance that has plagued the church for the past 500 years). Consider this quote from Barna and Viola:</p>
<blockquote><p>The New Testament never links sitting through an ossified ritual that we mislabel &#8220;church&#8221; as having anything to do with spiritual transformation. We grow by functioning, not by passively watching and listening. Let&#8217;s face it. The Protestant order of worship is largely unscriptural, impractical, and unspiritual. It has no analog in the New Testament. Rather, it finds its roots in the culture of fallen man.</p></blockquote>
<p>For Barna and Viola this looks like an organic network of house churches. I&#8217;m not so sure what it looks like yet, but I definitely think it involves meeting in homes far more often that it currently does. Ok, so I know I&#8217;ve dropped a bomb on a lot of people, so I&#8217;m going to stop here and give you time to think. Don&#8217;t take my word for it, though. Do the research for yourself. Read <em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/141431485X?ie=UTF8&#038;tag=prayeramedic-20&#038;linkCode=as2&#038;camp=1789&#038;creative=9325&#038;creativeASIN=141431485X">Pagan Christianity</a><img src="http://www.assoc-amazon.com/e/ir?t=prayeramedic-20&#038;l=as2&#038;o=1&#038;a=141431485X" width="1" height="1" border="0" alt="" style="border:none !important; margin:0px !important;" /></em>.</p>


<p>Related posts:<ol><li><a href='http://prayeramedic.com/2008/10/what-is-christianity-20/' rel='bookmark' title='What is Christianity 2.0?'>What is Christianity 2.0?</a></li>
<li><a href='http://prayeramedic.com/2009/01/ianity-a-christless-christianity/' rel='bookmark' title='?-ianity, a Christless Christianity'>?-ianity, a Christless Christianity</a></li>
<li><a href='http://prayeramedic.com/2010/05/canceling-church-to-do-service-projects/' rel='bookmark' title='Canceling church to do service projects'>Canceling church to do service projects</a></li>
</ol></p>]]></content:encoded>
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